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Comments on the article: Why Ayaan Hirsi Ali is wrong

14/03/2007

Halleh Ghorashi argues only openness to migrants' decisions can help steer clear of cultural fundamentalism.

 
M Moehling
(3 comments)
registered on 14/03/2007
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Oh dear...
...the listless "othering" discourse over long, rambling lines, an endless repetition of known buzzwords: exclusion rhetoric, us and them, culturalism, dogmatic, followed by the perverted equidistant "cultural fundamentalism" discourse, likening democracy and its foes, as fair is foul and foul is fair.

What is lacking, is any stringent reasoning -- as if firing up the buzzword barrage would be enough to make the enemy duck & cover and cringe with moral belly ache. This entry is disappointing and a distinct loss of quality. You could have copied that from any tier-mondiste apologist blog.
Created on 14/03/2007 | Reviewed on 14/03/2007
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globocitizen
(3 comments)
registered on 15/03/2007
This is a battle between conservatives(led by French intellectualism and neocons of all shades) and progressives (Habermas, Beck, Kymlicka, Ramadan, Ash,Buruma etc). The discourse of Ayaan Hirsi and her supporters is pathetic and smacks of deep-seated identity crisis. Neo-occidentalism and islamism are two faces of the same coin: dogmatism. Leadership is about wisdom, not tunnel vision.
Created on 15/03/2007 | Reviewed on 15/03/2007
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Curt Carpenter
(4 comments)
registered on 15/03/2007
The Right Debate?
Interesting, but a lot of this strikes me as a determined effort to avoid direct confrontation with a more-fundamental issue. Here is a quiz question:

"Which one of the following narcotics
has caused the greatest degree of human
suffering over the course of recorded
history?
a) Tobacco
b) Cocaine
c) Marijuana
d) Religion."

How will a post-Christian Europe fare in the struggle with a fundamentalist Islamo-Christian onslaught?
Created on 15/03/2007 | Reviewed on 15/03/2007
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Petra Marquardt
(2 comments)
registered on 11/03/2007
Changeable constructs -- who does the changing?
Quote:
This means that ethnic boundaries between groups should chiefly be considered situational, contextual, and changeable constructs, rather than inherent entities of different cultures.
Ghorashi's article is obviously of impressive intellectual quality and substance. However, there are a few assumptions implied that may simply not be "realistic" (and are certainly not compatible with the "new realism"). I actually lived for a few years in the Netherlands and I also know quite a few people who have lived there for some time as "foreigners".Compared to a country like the US, it is doubtlessly much more difficult for an outsider to feel "at home" in the Netherlands; but the question is, if you come as a "migrant", i.e. with the intent to settle there, why is it justified to assume that all the obligations are on the country that accepts you? And that does seem implicit in much of Ghorashi's argument. Why should the Dutch, who over centuries have built a very distinctive identity, be required to regard this identity in terms of "situational, contextual and changeable constructs"? And, would Ghorashi claim that Muslims in the Netherlands view their own identity in these terms? It sure did not look like that to me. Another problematic point is the "equality" of the dialogue that Ghorashi demands. As an intellectual/academic/ethical demand, it is truely noble, but again, it's not "realistic", and I would argue, it shouldn't be. I myself have a "hyphened identity" and have many friends who also do, among them Iranians. As friends, we obviously don't have problems with "equality", but that is simply due to the fact that we share certain values, which actually are the values of englightenment. As far as I am aware, none of my truly multicultural circle of friends is really prepared to consider somebody who advocates repressive social and religious views as truly "equal" in the sense that the repressive views are equal to liberal views. If your identity is defined by viewing women as inferior, gays as perverts, modern art as decadent, and saunas as evil, I will try to convince you that this is nonsense, in the hope that the identity you have is indeed a "situational, contextual, and changeable construct". Again, the bottom line in this discussion is the question whether there is such a thing as "universal values" -- I believe there is. That's why for me there actually are no preset "ethnic boundaries" (and believe me, I can back that up with my personal life), the boundaries are cultural, and there is quite simply nothing that I feel I share with a fundamentalist -- whether Muslim, Christian, Jew, or Hindu -- even if that makes me a cultural fundamentalist...
Created on 16/03/2007 | Reviewed on 16/03/2007
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Darryl
(2 comments)
registered on 17/03/2007
Ghorashi on Hirsi Ali
I've just now read Ghorashi's article and I must question her approach. She labels and defines many concepts in a rigid way that I doubt reflects the realities of life in the Netherlands. To invent a term, define it, then pin it to your adversaries is not real argument but just fancy name-calling. But, how closely her concepts fit life in the Netherlands I cannot say since I have not been there, I have only read about it and seen reporting here in the U.S.

Her point that there must be a space for a minority in a country free from suppression that gives an opportunity for reflection and positive change is obvious. But, the question she does not pose is whether muslims will take this opportunity in numbers significant enough to head off a cultural clash. The health of any civic body depends upon a homeostasis, not a rigidity as she has charicatured it, but a fluid, systemic balance that can absorb incoming elements in a way and at a rate that does not threaten the balance. This is the question I have: what will be the mechanism that the Netherlands (and many other western nations) adopts that will permit her kinder, gentler approach to absorbing newcomers?

We are very multi-cultural here in the U.S., but a healthy tension between cultural identity and assimilation is unavoidable, and it manages to work itself out here over time, but not without some spilt blood and tears. What we require of immigrants to our country is that they tolerate differences and do not try to limit our liberty. Ghorashi is wrong about Hirsi Ali. Her country tried to limit her liberty to chose her own way in the world. Those muslim woman hiding behind black burkas in the streets of the Netherlands are not liberated. If they chose to limit themselves, this is their right; but if they grow in numbers and political power and seek to place limits upon others who do not share their beliefs, this is not their right. This must be resisted. Muslims in the west must make a grand compromise: you can come here and make a space for yourselves in our pleasant countries, but in turn you must not try to change us to fit your view of the cosmos.
Created on 17/03/2007 | Reviewed on 17/03/2007
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