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Comments on the article: Why Ayaan Hirsi Ali is wrong

14/03/2007

Halleh Ghorashi argues only openness to migrants' decisions can help steer clear of cultural fundamentalism.

 
Marc
(2 comments)
registered on 18/05/2007
Signandsight accounted her removal of my reaction to the infamous column of Ghorashi by calling my reaction apparantly as not 'courteous'. I dare Anja Seeliger, the cencor of the reactions both Annabeth and I wrote, to state and explain where and how Annabeth or I have not been courteous. Because I can't see where I haven't been just that. If anyone, or something, should be called 'not courteous enough'it are both Ghorashi (very, very clearly!) and the quran where it explicitly points toward both christians and jews to be fought by islamic zealots.

But what is most disturbing in Anja's excuse is she exercises her 'right to delete comments' she considers 'unacceptable'. Apparantly, subscribers such as Annabeth and I are subject to wilful deleting of someone's opinion, when it doesn't match the secret agenda of any scrutinizer whose intent cannot be matched by the sight or outward appearance of a digital called Sign. By now it is to the reader of this to conclude wether the Sign in S&S entails either freedom or 'editors freedom of fear'. But anyhow, my dear Anja, censorship it is!

Events as this are simply referred to as the islamisation of the West. Shame on you, Anja.
Created on 23/05/2007 | Reviewed on 05/06/2007
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Editor
(5 comments)
registered on 15/01/2007
Job: editor of perlentaucher.de and signandsight.com
› Visit my page
Censorship? No, editors choice
Quote:
At this place a week ago I made response against the words of Gorashi. I now see this response, together with that of another responder, has been removed by signandsight. I want to know why this has been done...
In our terms of use we state clearly that users must be courteous, and that we reserve the right to delete comments we consider unacceptable. You can call it censorship, I call it editors freedom of choice.
Created on 23/05/2007 | Reviewed on 05/06/2007
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Marc
(2 comments)
registered on 18/05/2007
Signandsight cencorship
At this place a week ago I made response against the words of Gorashi. I now see this response, together with that of another responder, has been removed by signandsight. I want to know why this has been done, and when this response is replaced again.
Created on 22/05/2007 | Reviewed on 05/06/2007
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annabeth
(8 comments)
registered on 24/04/2007
Rejection of Pillow-isation with Islam by the Dutch
Quote:
The Quran/Islam is our self-declared enemy.
Halleh Gorashi fails to understand the root causes underlying the debacle 'Islam in The Netherlands',
as for a true in-depth analyses it is insufficient to consider a mere time-span of some 40 years in Dutch history while leaving out most of the root causes.

Moreover, it appears to me that Halleh Gorashi has not exactly 'suffered unbearable discrimination by the Dutch because I am an immigrant' but has been given ample opportunity by Holland to reach the position in Dutch society which she now holds.

Halleh Gorashi's appalling condescending and offensive attitude towards the Dutch is more irksome by ascribing this to: 'the innate need of the Dutch for Pillarization', while conveniently overlooking that it is specifically Islam and muslims who 'Pillarize' in Holland by preaching Apartheid where that didn't exist before - but which Gorashi choses to reinstitute (!) by referring ónly to 'Islam and muslims' thereby setting muslims apart as one 'Islam pillar' and as their 'legitimate Right' within dé-pillorized Holland.

Gorashi's lack of respect for, and empathy with the Dutch is equally appalling as she fails to mentioned the psychological effects of mass-immigration over a short period of time, the loss of our specific Dutch identity (which certainly existed before immigration) the numerous problems caused by the pressence of Islam. In fact Halleh Gorahsi, an immigrant from Persia who fled to Holland wherein she found sanctury from Islam, now sees it as her right to force the Dutch into acceptance of 'muslims/Islam'! Of course I would noty dare to call Gorashi's attitude covert Islam Imperialisme!

Indeed 'the need of the Dutch for Pillarisation' is exactly the ópposite namely: The rejéction by the Dutch that Islam again (!) infuses 'Pillarization' into Dutch society wherein overt religeous demands and displays are generally frowned upon and unacceptable by most Dutch citizens.

Gorashi also overlooks that the pressence of Islam is not only ikrsome in terms of culture-clash, but the centuries-long struggle of the Dutch for freedom from Church domination, the ensuing Enlightment, the freedom-struggle of Women's Emancipation - all this on the way to Freedom of Expression, Freedom of Religion, Separation of Church and State - and which the Dutch want to keep but which Islam/muslims áctively oppose.

The Dutch do not want their country to undergo the same fate as Islamised Persia, wherein Persian women are forced to wear Islam head-scarves and burka's and who thereby have lost their Persian identity to Islam. It is indeed surprising that Gorashi, who had to flee Iran (!) to find asylum in Holland, now defends muslims/Islam by attacking the Dutch while in fact the Dutch reject the intollerance and overt Islam-imperialisme by muslims - and as happens everywhere (!) in Europe wherein 'all Europeans are equally Guilty of Pillorization by rejecting Islam/muslims' wherewith these 'specific Dutch traits' are again shown-up to be Gorashi's fancyfull 'politically correct' invention as directed against the Dutch!

The first thing Dictators and invading enemies do is to kill the Word, abolish Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Expression through censureship by murdering intellectuals whose words are the daggers that rip their authority and oppression to bits, by banning and burning books, on any visual critique such as cartoons that attack their 'Holy Leaders', and by forcing théir doctrines, laws, customs and culture upon the conquered people. In different form this also happens through colonisation and mass immigration wherein the indigenous population is slowly but surely swamped by foreigners and their culture disappears under the weight thereof. The Dutch do not wish to see that happen in The Netherlands, and refuse to be Islamised.

While the culture of muslims is offensive to Europeans, the essence of the rejection of Islam in Europe lies in the Quran with 'Allah' who specifically pours his hatred and violence out over christians and Jews with the promise of his Final Solution that we will be 'destroyed in his Hell', and that in 'Allah's attempt in the Quran to try to destroy both Christianity and Judaisme. In other words: Islam is our self-declared in the Quran from her beginning and witnessed by Muhammed who murdered christians and Jews as 'enemies', followed by 10 centuries of Islam agression against christians and Jews through the same 'jihad' we unfortunately are again confronted with in the 21st century.

As long as Halleh Gorashi and muslims do not understand what really underlies our rejection they will blame óthers for what ISLAM caused and still causes.


Created on 09/05/2007 | Reviewed on 09/05/2007
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Darryl
(2 comments)
registered on 17/03/2007
Ghorashi on Hirsi Ali
I've just now read Ghorashi's article and I must question her approach. She labels and defines many concepts in a rigid way that I doubt reflects the realities of life in the Netherlands. To invent a term, define it, then pin it to your adversaries is not real argument but just fancy name-calling. But, how closely her concepts fit life in the Netherlands I cannot say since I have not been there, I have only read about it and seen reporting here in the U.S.

Her point that there must be a space for a minority in a country free from suppression that gives an opportunity for reflection and positive change is obvious. But, the question she does not pose is whether muslims will take this opportunity in numbers significant enough to head off a cultural clash. The health of any civic body depends upon a homeostasis, not a rigidity as she has charicatured it, but a fluid, systemic balance that can absorb incoming elements in a way and at a rate that does not threaten the balance. This is the question I have: what will be the mechanism that the Netherlands (and many other western nations) adopts that will permit her kinder, gentler approach to absorbing newcomers?

We are very multi-cultural here in the U.S., but a healthy tension between cultural identity and assimilation is unavoidable, and it manages to work itself out here over time, but not without some spilt blood and tears. What we require of immigrants to our country is that they tolerate differences and do not try to limit our liberty. Ghorashi is wrong about Hirsi Ali. Her country tried to limit her liberty to chose her own way in the world. Those muslim woman hiding behind black burkas in the streets of the Netherlands are not liberated. If they chose to limit themselves, this is their right; but if they grow in numbers and political power and seek to place limits upon others who do not share their beliefs, this is not their right. This must be resisted. Muslims in the west must make a grand compromise: you can come here and make a space for yourselves in our pleasant countries, but in turn you must not try to change us to fit your view of the cosmos.
Created on 17/03/2007 | Reviewed on 17/03/2007
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