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Comments on the article: Why Ukraine has no place in the EU

11/06/2008

Ukraine likes to conjure up the magic word "Galicia" to create an identity of European belonging. Richard Wagner picks apart this myth-cum-trademark in an EU bid he believes is misplaced.

 
Andrey
(1 comments)
registered on 22/11/2008
This article is very good!
Galicia is NOT Ukraine! Lets go out to EU, but without Kiev?
"more than 9 million victims of Holodomor in 1932-1933", Why not 40 million? Dear Mr. Wagner "please dont look for the truth in" primitive Galician propaganda.
Created on 22/11/2008
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Zbikow
(1 comments)
registered on 16/06/2008
I've have to express my solidarity with the people who put their comments before. Suggesting that the name Holodomor has been chosen on purpose to resemble Holocaust only in order to "upgrade" the event to the rank of genocide is cynical manipulation. This is just not fair to write such things and professional intellectuals should not do that. full stop. The Holodomor has been recognized as a crime against humanity by 23 countries including Parliament of Poland. This article brings up awful things that happend between Polish people and Ukrainians ONLY to support the idea of excluding Ukraine from European Community. I simply can't accept that.
The idea of introducing Ukraine into EU has a significant support in Poland. Not due to any "imperial desires" but due to the situation that we see it as great of chance for final reconciliation.
I've been to Ukraine and met there a great lot of hospitality and friendship (not ever problem with being polish or speaking polish either). Ukrainian writers that herr Wagner mentions are present in Poland widely. I met Taras Prochasko in Lodz to find out that he speak very good Polish. The mutual (and peer!) relations betweens the two countries has never been so good before. I hope views like those in the article won't spoil it. I'd like to believe that Mr Wagner intention was different.

Regards
Zbigniew Kowalski
Lodz, Poland
Created on 16/06/2008 | Reviewed on 16/06/2008
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Les Herasymchuk
(1 comments)
registered on 14/06/2008
Poor knowledge of Ukrainian history
Either the author simply hates Ukraine, or he borrowed his facts from outdated online Moscow-controlled sources.
1. He shouldn't misuse such terms as Muscowy and Russia.
2. For several centuries Ukraine lived in the orbit of Poland and Lithuania - Rrzeczpospolita.
3. The border areas historically were the idea-generating regions (e.g. neo-Platonism).
Ukraine was sometimes the center of several world ideologies, e.g. transforms of Byzantine ideology, Hasidism etc. Many European ideas in esthetics are also from Ukraine, Archipenko, Melevych etc. As a repressive Empire Moscow times and again appropriated foreign ideas.
4. The emigre culture belongs to the Mother country. The author may remember the evening spent by Eliot, Stravynsky and one famous British novelist in a restaurant, when they discussed the problems of their origin and phonology. Stravynsky forllowed the British classic and said that he was also of Polish-Ruthenian origin.
5. Lviv and Western Ukraine were the important centers of Ukrainian culture and ideology and produced dozens of famous names for Ukrainian, Polish and Jewish civiliyations. All of them were rooted in European mentality.
6. The author may know the history of religion and know the role played by Eukraine in such innovative European ideologes as Eastern Orthodoxy (even before it was put under the hand of Moscow ruler; recollect e.g. the role of Kyiv Mohyla Academy in Slavic revival), Protestantism and church unification later called Ecumenism.
7. The very fact of usurpation of Ukrainian territory by Muscowy, Austria as a result of destruction of Poland, or Ottoman Empire and annihilation of centuries old culture cannot deny the olden European cultural roots of this country.
8. The author should not mix-up in a Bush-like manner the questions of histroical trends and mentality with the problems of historically framed administrative control.
9. And the very last one: Ukraine has been there, I mean in Europe, for many centuries already.

Les Herasymchuk
Created on 14/06/2008 | Reviewed on 16/06/2008
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Olena Bobalo
(1 comments)
registered on 12/06/2008
This article is quite strange to me.

First of all I didn’t find any connection between the name of the article and its content. IMHO: the article should include analysis of the existing economical situation, cultural, educational levels, etc. The author writes only bla-bla-bla. I don’t understand how things which happened (or not happened) 200-800 years ago could influence on the decision to enter to any block or union today. I mean that this article doesn’t show why we couldn’t be in EU.

Second, this article looks like the news blocks about Ukraine on Russian TV – the information doesn’t correspond to reality in both cases.

The history’s review caused my laugh – a lot of new there I read about my country :-). It seems that Mr. Wagner wrote his article from smb words and didn’t check it’s plausible.

I don’t want to spend my time by writing what is wrong in this article. I think that person who not even tried to read a few books about the history of Ukraine has prejudice approach. Also I recommend him to familiarize with history of EU countries, especially Italy.



Did Mr. Wagner ever been in Ukraine? I don’t think so :-), probably in Russia.

Created on 13/06/2008 | Reviewed on 13/06/2008
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Myron Kushnir
(1 comments)
registered on 12/06/2008
Dr. Myron Kushnir Jr.
Quote:
Unfortunately Richard Wagner's "arguments" are too far from "objective point of view"
Totally agree with Steve.
Seems like Mr. Wagner knows too little about the history of Ukraine (particularly Western) to make judgements on its past and esspecially its future.
The article is full of fact manipulations and cannot even be called a half truth. He used a lot of names and locations here, and for someone who never interested the issue may sound "scientific" or "objective".
But I think the problem is he uses sources published by Soviet propaganda for half a century at least.
Will not list all of them now cause it will take too much space.
But will say this. That Mr. Wagner should be much much accurate in his words talking about the history of Europe, especially about the history of the other Ukraine, which is full of fight and blood for its independence.
But it atleast immoral to call more than 9 million victims of Holodomor (noone can count) in 1932-1933 just a failure of Stalin's forced collectivisation programme. There are hundreds and hundreds of documents published last decade prooving that it was a planned act of genocyde of Ukrainians by Stalin's government.
The question is does Mr. Wagner want to know the truth and to write the truthful things.Cause his article seems to be full of hate to Ukrainians. And please dont look for the truth in sources published by Soviet and now Russian propaganda.
Very sad to hear these kind of objectiveness.
To be continued...
Created on 12/06/2008 | Reviewed on 12/06/2008
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